Monday, August 28, 2017

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Another Great Summer of Reading at U City Library!

Just a few of the many points made in our discussions last week:

On David...

more discussion of the parallel between Uriah and David

not much narrative arc; just the rise of David, plus incidents

David is a surprisingly passive figure

the self-made is a new kind of victorian person

self-made man? - David didn't make it on his own - C Nicole Mason says explicitly that she had some luck and help

How old was David when he marries Agnes?

young David Copperfield is sort of like Harry Potter

a reader identified with Pip from Great Expectations and Oliver Twist when he read those as a young man - didn't have the same reaction to David - the character was a cipher

On Dora...

most troubling line for Miriam - it's better as it is (Dora, about her own death) - this allows David to be off the hook
Dora's loss of a child is described in one line and it's very obscure: I had hoped that lighter hands than mine...p 704 ch 48

No real explanation for Dora's decline - she needs to die

Pregnancy was the one taboo in victorian fiction

Dora is inadequate to what a professional man needs - what kind of partnership is required of women for this 'new victorian man'

reader: Dora is at least real, Agnes is not real

So many characters die - even Jip - so sentimental - it's almost comical, but people at the time wept over that

was anyone else surprised that he married Dora?

what would have happened if Dora had survived?

Other Characters...

Betsey points out - you know I never realized how much work goes into being an author

Betsey didn't stay with her husband, but she didn't divorce him

Character Littimer: character has no reason for being as despicable as he is - he exists in relation to steerforth = what does steerforth need to carry out his designs - very one-dimensional

Subplots:  Annie and Dr Strong,

Rosa Dartle - she turns on Mrs Steerforth and Emily - what is the source of her rage

Rosa is more tragic than evil

The Murdstones are never punished

Traddles' Sophy - another miracle woman

Why can Martha remarry but not Emily?  Dickens wants to save Emily as someone we can admire and look up to - she is divided from 'real' prostitutes

Traddles character - shows virtue of restraint, hard steady work

Micawber - a stretch that he turned out so successful

Uriah lost his Cockney accent during the period when he was confronted by David et al., picked up again in prison

Was Ham's body recovered after drowning? confusing to figure out this scene - why does David devote himself to Steerforth's body rather than Ham's?

Ham is the son of Noah.  Dickens loves boats that are shipshape

Mr. Dick - purely virtuous - precursor of Forrest Gump

Mr Dick - is the implication that in order to be truly good, having an intellect is a hindrance - he is so good, and supposed to be of limited intellect

Mr Dick - (Dixon per Micawber) - connection to Dickens' name

Steerforth had ambiguity, he did some good

General Points...

Women:  Fallen women, fallen angels, women are the motive force here.  David is saved by Betsey and her money; Agnes of course, always pointing upwards, many consequential women

emigration to Australia is a common piece of Victorian fiction

every episode has its own dramatic peak and then fades away

only people of color in DC - Julia Mills comes back from Australia with a servant who was a woman of color

Notion of respectability - the word is repeated many times in connection with Littimer

the prison scene is startling - who are these perfect inmates?  Uriah and Littimer - Dickens was interested in prison reform - is Dickens questioning the possibility of reform?   He felt that the system was soul crushing, esp. solitary confinement.  Who was successful in the system?  Those two know what to do, how to grease the wheels

drowning is a central metaphor - the caul is supposed to save a sailor from drowning - it's significant that steerforth

Dickens always talks about cleanliness, not just in DC

Uranus house - a charity Dickens started with philanthropist Angela Burdett Coutts - it was a home for homeless women (prostitutes)

significance of place in the novel - yarmouth vs canterbury - canterbury is a cathedral town - Agnes is in the cathedral town - Uriah is the worm who destroys the sanctified place

Yarmouth is where the working poor live -DC goes to yarmouth when he needs a break.  But he is the worm who ruins Yarmouth - he introduces Steerforth.

vulnerability of asking for help - David and C. Nicole Mason - (also appears in Hillbilly Elegy)

Was Dickens just getting sick of writing the book when he wrote the prison chapter?

Was fun reading and listening to audio in combo - the reader used great accents, and I heard them when I went back to the text

Is the jail system scene a comment on Jeremy Bentham / utilitarianism /  the Panopticon prison?

The book is an interesting commentary on the status of women, and class distinctions without hitting you over the head with it

Wednesday, August 23, 2017

It's our last Wednesday night for the Summer 2017 Big Book discussions. We have around 42 people here for the discussion of David Copperfield. Join us on Thursday at 3pm or on Friday at noon as we wrap up this summer's big read.

Monday, August 21, 2017

More Favorite Quotes!

 From reader Judi:

He had naturally a short throat and I do seriously believe he over starched himself. Page 553

I could not help feeling, though she mingled her tears with mine, that she had a dreadful luxury in our afflictions. She petted them, as I may say, and made the most of them.... we parted, overwhelmed with grief;  and I think Miss Mills enjoyed herself completely. Page 562
What else stands out for you?  Something sad?  Funny?  Significant?

Sunday, July 30, 2017

Thanks for Great Discussions!

Dora Spenlow, as played by Joanna Page
Thanks to all who attended our 2nd round of discussions.  As always, they were interesting, enlightening and fun.  If you attended, please take a moment to complete this follow-up survey to help us plan future programs.

And regardless of whether you joined us in July, we'd like to know whether you're interested in our newest reading venture: the Classics Book Group, beginning this fall.  We'll meet the 3rd Tuesdays of the month at 2pm; our first meeting is September 19th at 2pm.  Take the survey and let us know what you'd like to read.

Wednesday, July 26, 2017

The 2nd Round of Davic Copperfield Discussions -- Wednesday Night edition

We had around 45 readers discussing chapters 19-39 if of Charles Dickens's novel David Copperfield on Wednesday night. We will have discussions on Thursday, July 27 at 3pm and Friday, July 28 at noon.
A giant thank you to Dr. Miriam Bailin from Washington University for leading this month's discussion!

Our Discussion:
  • Parents and children:
    • David and his mother
    • Steerforth and his mother 
    • Mr. Peggotty and Lil Emily (and Ham)
    • Uriah Heep and Mrs. Heep
  • Younger Women and Older Men:
    • Wickfield and Agnes
    • Doctor Strong and Annie
    • Mr. Peggotty and Emily
    • Murdstone and Clara
  • Dickens and disability:
    • Mr. Dick is treated well as a character despite his mental illness
    • Miss Mowcher is an admirable character despite her size (or becomes a better character when Dickens feared a lawsuit)
    • Uriah is not disabled, his physicality expresses his inner character
  • Characters who cannot let go of the past:
    • Mr. Dick
    • Rosa Dartle and her thwarted love for Steerforth
    • Wickfield and his late wife
  • Pairings of Opposites:
    • David and Uriah (see also King David and Uriah the Hittite vying for Bathsheba)
    • James Steerforth and Tommy Traddles
    • Dora and Agnes
    • David and Tommy Traddles
  • The few first-person novels of the nineteenth century:
    • Jane Eyre by Charlotte Bronte
    • David Copperfield by Dickens
    • Alton Locke by Charles Kingsley
    • Great Expectations by Dickens
Why is David attracted to Dora?
Why did Steerforth attend Creakles' school?
What do we think of David's continued love of Steerforth? Why isn't he angry?

Other points:
Tommy is willing to wait forever for Sophie, David is in a hurry to marry.
Class resentment and gender resentment are big in Dickens.
Academics didn't touch Dickens in the 1940s.
Dickens (and Thackery) changed the course of novels during serialization due to sales. Responsive to the public.

Recommended books on Dickens, especially with good Copperfield parts:

  • J. Hillis Miller Charles Dickens: The World of His Novel
  • Q. D. Leavis book Dickens the Novelist
  • Robin Gilmour The Companion to David Copperfield
  • Michael Slater's Charles Dickens

Other favorite Dickens novels from our attendees:
The Pickwick Papers
Our Mutual Friend
Bleak House

USS Tommy Traddles

Acquired by the United States Navy in 1917, but never commissioned, the USS Tommy Traddles was meant to be a patrol boat.

Tuesday, July 25, 2017


In last weekend's Wall Street Journal, there was an intriguing article on the Opinion page by playwright, essayist and screenwriter David Mamet: Charles Dickens Makes Me Want to Throw Up.  Mamet (Glengarry Glen Ross, Speed-the-Plow, et al.) says of Dickens's characters that they "...are cardboard cutouts...mechanicals."  Dickens's prose is "...turgid and, less forgivable, tortured."  

Anne Rice was quick to rebut Mamet on her Facebook page, and there was a lot of back and forth on Twitter.   But what do YOU think?  Is Mamet right?  Comment below, please!

Thursday, July 20, 2017

Orwell on Dickens

In Orwell’s essay collection Dickens, Dali & Others, published in 1946, Orwell wrote a long piece called “Charles Dickens.”  It contains some of my favorite observations about Dickens, many of them concerning David Copperfield.  What do you think of the following?

·     “No one, at any rate no English writer, has written better about childhood than Dickens…no novelist has shown the same power of entering into the child’s point of view.”  In referring to the early chapters of Copperfield’s life with the Murdstones, he says, “Dickens has been able to stand both inside and outside the child’s mind, in such a way that the same scene can be wild burlesque or sinister reality, according to the age at which one reads it.”  I think this explains the gloom I felt reading the first part of the novel, immediately after finishing Born Bright.  C. Nicole Mason’s true story showed a similar power of presenting hard reality as a child would experience it.  

·       According to Orwell, Dickens identifies himself more with the middle class than with the proletariat: “In David Copperfield…the class-issue does not seem to strike him as paramount.  It is a law of Victorian novels that sexual misdeeds must not go unpunished...but neither Dickens, nor old Peggotty…seems to feel that Steerforth has added to his offence by being the son of rich parents.”  How do you see Dickens on the class issue?

·       About Dickens’s style of writing, he asserts, “The thing that cannot be imitated is his fertility of invention, which is invention …of phrase and concrete details. The outstanding, unmistakable mark of Dickens’s writing is the unnecessary detail.”  He gives as an example a line from the Pickwick Papers: “…the family were at dinner – baked shoulder of mutton and potatoes under it….”  As Orwell notes, the reader doesn’t need to know that the potatoes were under the mutton.  The detail is merely “…a florid little squiggle on the edge of the page; only, it is by just these squiggles that the special Dickens atmosphere is created.”  Do you agree?  Can you find ‘florid little squiggles’ anywhere in David Copperfield?

Dickens, Dali & Others / George Orwell
Harcourt, Brace & World, Inc., 1946

In the library at: 824 ORW

Wednesday, July 19, 2017

Collect like a Victorian!

A rabbit school diorama by taxidermist Walter Potter
In chapter 22, David Copperfield meets the fascinating Miss Mowcher, a woman whose mannerisms
captivate our protagonist almost as much as her short stature. During their conversation, Miss Mowcher notes that she keeps the Russian Prince's fingernails and toenails in order for him, and then produces scraps of said nails to show off to David and Steerforth. Miss Mowcher comments, "The Prince's nails do more for me in private families of the genteel sort, than all my talents put together. I always carry 'em about. They're the best introduction. If Miss Mowcher cuts the Prince's nails, she must be all right. I give 'em away to the young ladies. They put 'em in albums, I believe. Ha! ha! ha!"

I must admit that the idea of collecting fingernails gives me pause, though the Victorian upper class had a habit of collecting things that seem may seem odd to us today. This article from The Atlantic discusses the popular hobby of collecting birds' eggs, and these two articles (from Atlas Obscura and Mental Floss) discuss pteridomania — or fern collecting — and seaweed scrapbooking, respectively. There are also several accounts of Victorians collecting hair (sometimes for use in jewelry), animal skeletons, dead insects, and anthropomorphic taxidermy in their curiosity cabinets, which often took up entire rooms.

These seem odd to me, but then, how many of the things we do today would seem odd to Victorians?